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Lawfare Daily: Ideological Exclusions and Deportations with Julia Rose Kraut

Tyler McBrien, Julia Rose Kraut, Jen Patja
Thursday, April 24, 2025, 8:00 AM
Discussing the history of ideological exclusion in the United States. 

Published by The Lawfare Institute
in Cooperation With
Brookings

On today’s episode, Julia Rose Kraut, author of the book “Threat of Dissent: A History of Ideological Exclusion and Deportation in the United States,” joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about that book, originally published in 2020, and how it can help us make sense of the Trump administration’s recent immigration and deportation policies. 

They discussed how ideological exclusions and deportations present a unique intersection of immigration and First Amendment legal doctrine and precedent, the chilling effect these policies have on constitutionally protected political speech, and the recent case of Columbia University graduate student Mahmoud Khalil.

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Tyler McBrien is the managing editor of Lawfare. He previously worked as an editor with the Council on Foreign Relations and a Princeton in Africa Fellow with Equal Education in South Africa, and holds an MA in international relations from the University of Chicago.
Julia Rose Kraut is a lawyer, historian, and author of “Threat of Dissent: A History of Ideological Exclusion and Deportation in the United States."
Jen Patja is the editor and producer of the Lawfare Podcast and Rational Security. She currently serves as the Co-Executive Director of Virginia Civics, a nonprofit organization that empowers the next generation of leaders in Virginia by promoting constitutional literacy, critical thinking, and civic engagement. She is the former Deputy Director of the Robert H. Smith Center for the Constitution at James Madison's Montpelier and has been a freelance editor for over 20 years.
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