The Lawfare Podcast: How to Evaluate Progress in the Justice Department's Jan. 6 Investigation

Jen Patja, Benjamin Wittes, Natalie K. Orpett, Quinta Jurecic, Peter Strzok
Monday, August 1, 2022, 12:00 PM
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There’s been a great deal of debate recently about how to understand the apparently slow pace of the Justice Department’s investigation into Jan. 6, particularly into Donald Trump’s personal role in the insurrection. On Lawfare, editor-in-chief Benjamin Wittes made the case that everyone should just chill out and let the department do its work, while executive editor Natalie Orpett and senior editor Quinta Jurecic argued that it’s reasonable to push harder for the department to understand its particular responsibilities in upholding the rule of law in this unique political moment.

After that debate, Ben, Natalie, and Quinta put their heads together with former FBI official Pete Strzok—who’s expressed his own skepticism about whether the Justice Department is investigating aggressively enough—to map out some benchmarks for what to look for in the Jan. 6 investigation going forward. They wrote that up as a Lawfare piece—and then they sat down to talk about it on the podcast.

How will we know if the Justice Department investigation is proceeding aggressively? What signs should worry people hoping for legal accountability for the insurrection? Natalie, Pete, Ben, and Quinta discussed.

Note: This podcast was recorded before the New York Times published some new reporting on July 28 about the role of lead prosecutor Thomas Windom. Throughout the show, you’ll hear reference to a major report by the Washington Post published on July 26 stating that prosecutors have asked witnesses testifying before the grand jury about Trump’s individual actions before and on Jan. 6.  

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Jen Patja

Jen Patja

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Jen Patja is the editor and producer of the Lawfare Podcast and Rational Security. She currently serves as the Co-Executive Director of Virginia Civics, a nonprofit organization that empowers the next generation of leaders in Virginia by promoting constitutional literacy, critical thinking, and civic engagement. She is the former Deputy Director of the Robert H. Smith Center for the Constitution at James Madison's Montpelier and has been a freelance editor for over 20 years.
Benjamin Wittes

Benjamin Wittes

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Benjamin Wittes is editor in chief of Lawfare and a Senior Fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution. He is the author of several books.
Natalie K. Orpett

Natalie K. Orpett

@nkorpett
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Natalie Orpett is the executive editor of Lawfare and deputy general counsel of the Lawfare Institute. She was previously an attorney at the law firm Jenner & Block, where she focused on investigations and government controversies, and also maintained an active pro bono practice. She served as civilian counsel to a defendant in the Guantanamo Military Commissions for more than eight years.
Quinta Jurecic

Quinta Jurecic

@qjurecic
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Quinta Jurecic is a fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution and a senior editor at Lawfare. She previously served as Lawfare's managing editor and as an editorial writer for the Washington Post.
Peter Strzok

Peter Strzok

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Peter Strzok served in the FBI from 1996 to 2018, rising to the deputy of its Counterintelligence Division. During his career, Mr. Strzok worked around the world against national security threats from China, Russia, Iran, Cuba and others, including countering state-sponsored disinformation, prosecuting acts of economic espionage and theft of intellectual property, and combatting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Mr. Strzok is the recipient of the FBI’s highest investigative honor, the Director’s Award. Prior to the FBI, Mr. Strzok spent four years on active duty in the US Army’s 101 st Airborne Division. Mr. Strzok is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service, from which he holds master’s and bachelor’s degrees in international affairs. He is the New York Times bestselling author of "Compromised: Counterintelligence and the Threat of Donald J Trump." He lives in northern Virginia with his family.

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