The Lawfare Podcast: Jim Baker and Susan Landau on 'Moving the Encryption Policy Conversation Forward'

Jen Patja, Benjamin Wittes, Susan Landau, Jim Baker
Tuesday, October 8, 2019, 12:00 PM

Encryption and going dark splashed across the headlines in the wake of the 2015 San Bernardino attack, when the FBI and Apple went to court over access to an encrypted iPhone recovered from one of the perpetrators. Since then, little progress has actually been made on the encryption issue.

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Encryption and going dark splashed across the headlines in the wake of the 2015 San Bernardino attack, when the FBI and Apple went to court over access to an encrypted iPhone recovered from one of the perpetrators. Since then, little progress has actually been made on the encryption issue. Privacy advocates and technology companies are locked in a stalemate with law enforcement, with the former arguing that encryption is vital for cybersecurity, while latter has argued that law enforcement agencies need some way to lawfully access encrypted data in certain criminal or national security cases. A working group set up by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and Princeton University is endeavoring to break this impasse—or at least crack it—with a new paper entitled “Moving the Encryption Policy Conversation Forward.”


Benjamin sat down with two members of the working group—Susan Landau of Tufts University and Jim Baker of the R Street Institute—to discuss the paper, the goals of the group, and how to reconcile seemingly incompatible views.


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Jen Patja

Jen Patja

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Jen Patja is the editor and producer of the Lawfare Podcast and Rational Security. She currently serves as the Co-Executive Director of Virginia Civics, a nonprofit organization that empowers the next generation of leaders in Virginia by promoting constitutional literacy, critical thinking, and civic engagement. She is the former Deputy Director of the Robert H. Smith Center for the Constitution at James Madison's Montpelier and has been a freelance editor for over 20 years.
Benjamin Wittes

Benjamin Wittes

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Benjamin Wittes is editor in chief of Lawfare and a Senior Fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution. He is the author of several books.
Susan Landau

Susan Landau

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Susan Landau is Professor of Cyber Security and Policy in Computer Science, Tufts University. Previously, as Bridge Professor of Cyber Security and Policy at The Fletcher School and School of Engineering, Department of Computer Science, Landau established an innovative MS degree in Cybersecurity and Public Policy joint between the schools. She has been a senior staff privacy analyst at Google, distinguished engineer at Sun Microsystems, and faculty at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, University of Massachusetts Amherst, and Wesleyan University. She has served at various boards at the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine and for several government agencies. She is the author or co-author of four books and numerous research papers. She has received the USENIX Lifetime Achievement Award, shared with Steven Bellovin and Matt Blaze, and the American Mathematical Society's Bertrand Russell Prize.
Jim Baker

Jim Baker

@thejimbaker
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Jim Baker is a contributing editor to Lawfare. He is a former Deputy General Counsel of Twitter, the former General Counsel of the FBI, and the former Counsel for Intelligence Policy at the U.S. Department of Justice. In that latter role, from 2001-2007, he was responsible for all matters presented to the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of any current or former employer.

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