The National Security Law Podcast: It Is More Likely Than Not That Our FARRA Discussion Will Bore You

Robert Chesney, Steve Vladeck
Wednesday, October 4, 2017, 2:04 PM

If you have ever wondered what statutes, constitutional principles, and judicial precedents come into play when the U.S. government contemplates transferring an American citizen from our military custody to the custody of another government, this is the episode for you.

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If you have ever wondered what statutes, constitutional principles, and judicial precedents come into play when the U.S. government contemplates transferring an American citizen from our military custody to the custody of another government, this is the episode for you.

Building off news reports that the Trump administration is contemplating sending the as-yet-unnamed U.S. citizen enemy combatant to Iraqi custody in order to face prosecution there, Professors Chesney and Vladeck spend much of this episode exploring the ins-and-outs of the legal issues that might arise in that case. They focus in particular on the non-refoulement issue, with special attention to the Supreme Court’s 2008 Munaf v. Geren ruling as well as a statute known as FARRA.

They precede that discussion with news that the Supreme Court has agreed to hear Steve’s cases involving military officers appointed to civilian office (see here for more), and they follow it with an extended review of the extremely interesting (and potentially quite-controversial) issues that might arise in the event of an acquittal in the currently-ongoing prosecution of Abu Khattala (the alleged mastermind of the Benghazi attack). The latter discussion focuses on the likelihood that Khattala would immediately come into ICE’s custody pending removal, possibly with the aid of the not-yet-used Section 412 of the 2001 USA PATRIOT Act. Such a result might well, in turn, result in a new form of indefinite, long-term, non-criminal detention, but then again the administration might also choose at some point to shift Khattalah into military custody (perhaps within the United States, a la Jose Padilla, or perhaps even at GTMO).

Towards the end of the show, Steve and Bobby tout the fascinating new podcast project from Prof. Eric Muller chronicling the human stories associated with the Japanese Internments and Removals of WWII, known as Scapegoat Cities. Then they wrap up with a series of bone-headed predictions about the MLB playoffs, proving there are some serious gaps in their expertise…


Robert (Bobby) Chesney is the Dean of the University of Texas School of Law, where he also holds the James A. Baker III Chair in the Rule of Law and World Affairs at UT. He is known internationally for his scholarship relating both to cybersecurity and national security. He is a co-founder of Lawfare, the nation’s leading online source for analysis of national security legal issues, and he co-hosts the popular show The National Security Law Podcast.
Steve Vladeck is a professor of law at the University of Texas School of Law. A 2004 graduate of Yale Law School, Steve clerked for Judge Marsha Berzon on the Ninth Circuit and Judge Rosemary Barkett on the Eleventh Circuit. In addition to serving as a senior editor of the Journal of National Security Law & Policy, Steve is also the co-editor of Aspen Publishers’ leading National Security Law and Counterterrorism Law casebooks.

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