The Lawfare Podcast, Episode #121: Striking a Balance---Whistleblowing, Leaks, and Security Secrets

Last weekend, the New York Times published an article outlining the strength of congressional support for the CIA targeted killing program. In the story, the Times also purported to reveal the identities of three covert CIA operatives who now hold senior leadership roles within the Agency. As you might expect, the decision generated a great deal of controversy, which Lawfare covered here and here. Later in the week, Jack Goldsmith interviewed Executive Editor of the New York Times Dean Baquet to discuss the decision. That conversation also prompted responses from Ben, Mark Mazzetti (one of the authors of the piece), and an anonymous intelligence community reader. Following Times' story, the Johns Hopkins University Center for Advanced Governmental Studies, along with the James Madison Project and our friends at Just Security, hosted a timely conference on Secrecy, Openness and National Security: Lessons and Issues for the Next Administration. In a panel entitled Whistleblowing and America's Secrets: Ensuring a Viable Balance, Bob Litt, General Counsel for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, blasted the Times, saying that the paper had "disgraced itself." However, the panel---which with permission from the Center for Advanced Governmental Studies, we now present in full---covered much more than the latest leak published in the Times. In a conversation moderated by Mark Zaid, the Executive Director of the James Madison Project, Litt, along with Ken Dilanian, Dr. Gabriel Schoenfeld, and Steve Vladeck, tackled a vast array of important legal and policy questions surrounding classified leak prosecutions, the responsibilities of the press, whistleblower protections, and the future of the Espionage Act. It's a jam-packed discussion full of candid exchanges---some testy, most cordial---that greatly raises the dialogue on the recent history of leaks, prosecutions, and future lessons for the next Administration.